No.
I've decided to keep this page up so that you can see what Ebay has put this software and developer through. Somebody needs to keep tabs on Anti Snipe attitude in general. If anything interesting comes up, I'll post more.
8/99 Hey look here! Never be outbid again! On Ebay's pages: "Check out our new eBay a-go-go service." Ebay uses a long standing Snipe Software ad tag line to promote their eBay a-go-go service. FACT: 100's of thousands of auctions are Sniped. All the users of this service will get from Ebay is a BEEP - BEEP You have been outbid but then before the user of the service can get to their computer to bid again there will another BEEP - BEEP Auction is over! Ebay has been preaching to use the hidden proxy and bid all the money up front. Their new service contradicts the hidden proxy purpose.
5/99 Maybe Ebay has bigger fish to fry? Software (a lot of it illegal) is still being sold on Ebay Super Featureds. Wonder why the Cricket has been discriminated against... One positive thing that has come of all this is when Ebay plans on making a change to their site, they give me advance notice. When I get some free time, I'll post the "lying" emails from management and staff over the decision to ban the Cricket from the Super Featured Auction. I'll post how Ebay closed my auctions then sent all my bidders a warning email that if they did business with me, there would be some kind of risk. My family lost one week of my income that week.
I noticed about a month ago that Ebay has finally officially mentioned the word "Sniping" on their site however they have nothing nice to say about it and continue to tell bidders to bid all their money up front.
Interestingly, what is supposed to be a glossary definition of Sniping, is actually an anti Snipe position. Lets look at Ebay's "advice" because the propaganda is somewhat misleading:
"...there is a way to keep from being outbid within your spending limit... bid the absolute maximum you are willing to pay going in and let our proxy system do the work. Human nature makes us resist doing this, but it does work."
Ebay wants you to spend all of your "spending limit." Our human nature makes us resist this because we want to spend as little as possible when we buy something. Snipers do use Ebay's proxy system but they do so later in the auction rather than sooner.
"There is a common misconception that snipers always win."
As Ebay states further, Snipers do not always win, but the "common misconception" has been born from something. Ebay shows by their need to go beyond giving a glossary definition of Sniping that they do admit a disproportional large number of bidders lose to the Snipe.
"If they [Snipers] place a last-second bid and it isn't high enough, they are generally not going to have enough time to get back in and place another bid before the auction ends"
The above statement contradicts the proxy method that Ebay wants you to use. It also gives you good reason to consider Sniping. When somebody bids then comes back and bids again, the price of the item goes up.
The idea is to spend only your spending limit and no more.
A Sniper has no intention of coming back to bid again because this is one reason why they Snipe.
Snipers know that if they put all the money up front, Ebay's computer will spend some or all of their money for them every time somebody impulsively bids without any real intention of spending what the item might be really worth. See my Clyde article.
It does not make sense to give all your budget to somebody in the business of making commissions off the sellers and let them manage how it gets spent.
Snipers keep control of their money until the time is right. Ie., Nobody is allowed to bid them up until just moments before the auction closes. Sniping insures that only those that really want the item are present at the auction.
5,000 people (number pulled out of the air) can bid at the very last second of an Ebay auction. Ebay's computer will sort out the bids and declare the winner. There is no chance that a bid that is received by Ebay before an auction has ended will be left out of the bidding war.
Look at Ebay's Bidder Tutorial line of reasoning:
"This saves you the trouble of keeping track of the auction as it proceeds and prevents you from being outbid at the last minute -- unless your spending limit is exceeded."
The way to pay the most for any item being sold on Ebay is to take the above advice. It is also the way to see that Ebay makes the most commission off the seller. It is also a reason to buy my Snipe program. Cricket Jr keeps track of when the auction closes not you.
Look at Ebay's "Hard Outage" Auction Extension Policy:
Look at an Ebay auction that lasts for 7 days. Ebay's policy says that hour number 167 and 168 are the most important hours in an auction. (7 days X 24 hours) Only auctions that end during a hard outage qualify for an automatic 24 hour extension.
Note: 6/10 - 6/11 Ebay has had two hard outages. On 6/10 the hard outage lasted over 6 hours and there is a current outage going on now. This current outages is over 12 hours old with no end in sight. Both outages began during prime time bidding. (6 PM Pacific Time) Technically my current auctions have lost 2 days of Prime Time bidding but they do not qualify for an extension. This furthers the point in that the most important auction hour is the last hour.
3/99 In my January and February Cricket Jr auctions I poked fun at Ebay's "Snipe Clock" (they called it a Time Zone clock) they had been selling as a Logo item. They stopped selling it! They had a plastic clock that showed different time zones. There ad line was "never miss the end of an auction again." In my ad I suggested that Cricket Jr was a much cheaper way to go for those that didn't want to miss the end of the auction. $24.95 vs $12.99 (and no batteries to deal with!)
2/99 Things have been very quiet. If I haven't mentioned it below someplace, Snipe software has been banned from the Super Feature Auction Category. Reportedly Ebay kicked the Cricket off the Super Featured Auctions because "no software will be allowed to be sold on Super Featureds. Fake diet pills still can be sold on the Super Featureds though.
8/98 - All Snipers: John Dex Product Manager for Ebay has triple reassured us that Ebay is not killing the Snipe. The issue is Auto Bidding software and the potential for damage. This damage being apparently mis-use of the program to place automated false bids. As some of you know, myself and two other bid tool developers have been working very hard to save the auto bid tool and possibly the Snipe. Don't leave before checking out John Dex's most recent email concerning the auto bid tool and the Snipe.
On 8/12/98 the sellers of automated bid tools, aka Sniper programs were sent an email from John Dex Product Manager for Ebay.
This letter was advance warning to the developers of these programs that Ebay was going to make a security update to their server. John Dex assured us that this was a safety measure due to a Bid Bot security threat.
This email states that Ebay does not frown on the development of these bidding tools concurs with an email I received from an Ebay Staff member when the first Snipe Tool was listed on Ebay. Within hours of receiving Johns email, Chuck Engleton and Mike Careati, developers of the two other top selling auto bidding programs and I made contact with each other to discuss this issue. We agreed that it would be in our customer's best interest for us to bang our heads together and see what we could do to fix whatever Ebay was planning to do and to get the fix out as fast a possible. We agreed to put aside our competitive differences and worked together for the solution to the problem. We did not conclude that this was the end of auto bid tools as John Dex had himself emphasized without any prompting from us that Ebay had no problem with our developing auto bidding software.
Mike Careati sent John Dex an email inquiring about the planned change. In reply John confirmed Ebay's position and further stated Ebay would not assist us in solving the problem but added that when the security update was implemented, we could possibly modify our software, thus make a fix. If this isn't tacit approval while leading us to believe things were not that bad, I don't know what is. Chuck then followed up with an email to John attempting to open a dialogue with Ebay. In our behalf Chuck offered to work together in making our software compatible with the Ebay planned security update. John's reply restated Ebay's position on the matter and also stated that if we wanted to discuss the issue further he would forward our concerns to counsel. (Attorney?)
The security update was implemented during Ebay's regular scheduled maintenance period on 8/17/98. That morning, we discovered what the security update was and by 2:00 Pacific Time I personally had a temporary fix in nearly 2,000 users email boxes. On 8/23/98 I had a permanent fix made and uploaded to the Cricket Jr download site and again sent about 2,000 emails to my users letting them know of the permanent fix. In addition, I shipped out about 30-40 pending Cricket Jr programs to the most recent bidders caught up in the middle of this. (There was an auction going on)
During this time many Ebay community members inquired via email as to the future of the auto bidding programs to which I responded truthfully that Ebay had no problem with our programs and that John Dex, Product Manager for Ebay suggested that we could make a work around. I told those inquiring minds to not worry, made the fix, shipped it out and a week later relisted my auction.
Did we fix our problem too fast?
Nearly two weeks later on 8/28/98, the auto bidding software developers received another email from John Dex. This email basically states Ebay's fix was not good enough and that Ebay would continue to implement bidding security updates and that these updates would be periodic and ongoing. John added these changes would render our auto bidding tools useless. John also states without stating so that we would receive no further warnings from Ebay and again is willing to refer us to counsel.
Also more strongly worded than ever, the security updates are to make Ebay a safer online trading experience for all users. John wrongly states that the previous security fix disabled our software. (not totally true, only crippled a few features) Ebay is now attempting to make a larger than life safety issue and the unfortunate consequence is that the auto bidding tool could very well be a goner in the process.
We Developers need your continued support and patience
We have proved to you that we respond to trouble. I am going to ask our auto bid tool users to please bear with us while we see what comes next. There is a good chance that nothing will be affected. When this issue first came about, we informed John Dex that we were perfectly willing to make agreement with Ebay concerning the abilities of our programs. This offer was turned down. As of this writing, Ebay is not willing to work with us because working with us to provide a solution for all of us is being construed by John Dex as an endorsement of our products.
Understanding that Ebay has a legitimate security concern we took it upon ourselves to make our programs worthless to any rogue Ebay user that might get their hands on them. Prior to all of this starting, I had an alpha program ready to be sent into beta testing that would be competitive with some of the more recent software programs being offered on Ebay. Upon learning about Ebay's security concerns I reprogrammed my program to comply with what I believe Ebay would agree to be a very safe auto bidding program. In other words, like all quality producers of a consumer good, I, Chuck and Mike felt it was in our customers and our own best interest to monitor ourselves rather than have a higher authority destroy our product thus bring to an end the good it does for those who need it.
Browsers and Auto Bidding Programs
Technically, our auto bidding programs are really not much different than your Internet Browser. The web browser is a tool you use to view and navigate the Internet. On a web site like Ebay's one of the things your browser can do is submit a bid form. The auto bidding tool and the additional features that are being offered to help manage Ebay's bidding community's lives use exactly the same http protocols browsers use to traverse and communicate with servers on the Internet. The underlying difference is, an auto bidding program has one specific job to do. If your browser had a timer on it and you could say when to submit the form, there would be no difference between the tools. Our current auto bidding programs do nothing that you yourself can not do by looking at your wrist watch and clicking on a form submission button with your mouse.
When you log onto Ebay's site with your browser, your browser and Ebay's server have a communication session behind the scenes. One of the things your browser does is report to the server what browser and version you are using, where you just came from, who your ISP is and your host address. Ebay if they so desire can capture your mouse click when you click a link thus can know where you are going next. (among a few other things) Ebay does not necessarily collect all this information about you but your browser has been programmed to give more information about you if one of Ebay servers should but just ask. However your browser will not divulge anything overly personal about you without your permission. The number one reason your browser gives information about you is for business marketing reasons. All Internet servers keep a log of every visit by every user and they can use this information to market their products or services to you. The second reason is to trace you if you abuse a server or break the law on the Internet (Child Porn for example) The third reason is a site can serve you better by automating things themselves a bit based on what they can store on your computer if you allow them to. (Cookies) Turn your cookie machines off on your browser for a few days. You might be surprised at how many sellers are giving you a cookie also. http://www.fxweb.com is all over Ebay.
I reprogrammed my alpha program to do exactly as your browser does in a few areas. That is, honestly report to Ebay what the name of the program is that is communicating with Ebay, your ISP and your Host address.
The point is, I have programmed my program to make it very difficult for a user to get away with abusing the Ebay community with my product.
Are These Auto Bidding Programs Bid Bots?
Yes and no. Yes because an auto bidding program does something automatically. No because they are not programmed to implement rapid fire session periods with Ebay's servers. If you really stop and think about it, every piece of software is some kind of a Bot. Do a search and replace in your word processor and watch the mini Bot program find the word you wish to replace then replace it for you. You can have your word processing Bot make the change once or on all occasions it finds a word. Ebay uses a Bot program to keep track of their website and to detect other Bots. Your microwave is a Bot.
Ebay has wrongly associated an auto bidding tool with what the average Internet user perceives as a Bot. Our auto bid programs make one simple request of a server at a set time that you designate. Your Internet Browser on the other hand ties up Ebay's server for a much longer period of time than an auto bidding program.
Auto bidding programs make a small request to an Ebay server that only requires about 5 seconds or less of Ebay's server's time. Ebay wants their community members to stereotype an auto bidding program with the type of Bot that traverses the Internet and occasionally their site making up to 10 to 20 requests to their server per second for hours on end. (Called Rapid Fire) The great majority of Bots on the Internet are good Bots. However you have been conditioned to view Bots as bad. All of your Search Engines are information collecting Bots.
The truth is, our auto bidding programs are less of a burden on Ebay's system than your web browser is.
Ebay's concern is that somebody is going to make Bidding Robot that can maliciously make a great number of false bids. This is a legitimate concern however, killing the good guys in the process is wrong.
How the typical new user becomes an Anti Sniper
Anti Snipers are not born, they are trained. When dealing with issues, don't we make the issue hot or cold by how we allow others to perceive the issue? One of today's powerful politically correct persuasion tool are the words Safe and Secure. If you don't go along with a way of thinking, you are told you risk your safety and security. We are doing this so you will be safer and more secure. Case on point. A new user recently fired on the Ebay support board because this person was Sniped.
"Posted by >NEW Ebay USER< (0) on 08/22/98 at 11:00:38 PDT
Auctions
My message is in reference to buyers using a software to outbid high bidders at the last
possible second. I have only started using Ebay in the last 7 days and already I have been
outbid twice not by a person but by acomputer. Why are we not warned when we first sign
up about unscrupulous operators using SNIPERS!.. that wiil be able to give certain
individuals the advantage over every one else. I have already sent Ebay a letter of
complaint against a specific buyer and don't know if concrete action will be taken against
that person as he/she is operating in direct violation of the User Agreement. And
who knows how many other people have the advantage of using this software ? I found it
available for sale on Ebay... and there were 150 programs offered. This goes against the
integrity of this website which advertises itself as safe and honest. Well whatever it is
, it isn't fair to all of us and I would like to know how Ebay will handle the problem.
You know it exists." (underlines mine)
How many times have you heard of cases where a Sniper was given negative feedback by a new user? Can you think of a safe and sane reply to make to this poor uninformed new Ebay community member feel more secure at Ebay? I can.
Dear user,
Sniping is an accepted practice on Ebay and has been going on for years. A Sniper is one who bids at the end or final moments of an auction in a attempt to take possession of an item. The Snipers goal is,
Bid late in the auction because the current high bidder may not be around to counter the bid, which is usually the case or
Hopefully if the current high bidder is around, the bidder may not have enough time to rebid before the auction ends.
I understand how you must feel being a new user and having experienced being Sniped. I hear you saying that Ebay should warn new users about the Snipe. I will pass this on to management for you.
In the meantime the trick to beating a Sniper is by bidding your maximum proxy bid as stated in Ebay's bidders tips. In that case, you are not Sniped but rather you just lost to somebody willing to bid more than yourself.
The Sniper programs do not give any user the competitive advantage as there is no computerized magic window into Ebay's bidding system and you can do the same thing with a watch and your browser. The software does however make the Snipe much easier to accomplish. Furthermore, using the software is not in direct violation of Ebay's user agreement. The software does not affect nor hamper Ebay's system at all.
My best, Ebay Staff Member
Wouldn't you agree the above is a safe, sane, and honest reply designed to
help the new community member understand what happened? You send this person away with the
facts and a small positive education. But no... Here is the response staff is directed to
give to such users:
"Posted by >SUPPORT STAFF MEMBER@ebay.com< (???) on 08/22/98 at 11:09:21 PDT
>EBAY NEW USER< at 11:00:38 PDT,
Please check our Announcement Board for recent posts concerning this type of bidding
software. Ebay always recommends that users place their maximum bid as soon as they make
their buying decision. By using our proxy-bidding system, explained in the bidding screen
itself, they only need make one bid during the entire course of the auction, and not worry
about being outbid within their spending limit."
Where is this staff member directed to send the user? Right to the Ebay Announcement board. Does the staff member understand the user misinterpreted the User Agreement misinterpretation? No. This user scooted to read the what Ebay's official position is on the matter. In the announcement does Ebay make any attempt to prevent fear? No. Does Ebay take the same position publicly as they have with the developers... that Ebay allows the developing and selling of this "type" of software?
Where does John Dex stand on the issue?
First and foremost, John works for Ebay and he must defend Ebay's position. He makes himself very clear when asked to be more specific about the changes about to be made a few weeks ago. Is the underlined words below, John's personal opinion or Ebay's?
"Doing so may imply a partnership or endorsement relationship
that does not exist between Ebay and you. In order to not favor any one user more than
another
we will not assist any one particular set of users to gain a competitive advantage
at this time."
Auto bidding software users benefit from these tools because it makes bidding late in an auction more convenient. The competitive advantage exists only because the current high bidder probably did not bid their max bid and is more than likely not around to counter your take over bid. This advantage is not created by the auto bidding software. The advantage exists because the average Ebay bidder does not bid smart. Your anti sniper is a whiner/cry baby and rather than take responsibility for not bidding properly they blame somebody or something else to explain their losing an auction.
Ebay Security vs. Auto Bidding software
Do not believe for a second that our software is a threat to Ebay security. In my Alpha program, I prevent a user from opening up multiple instances of my program. I also limited the number of bids that could be submitted in close proximity to another bid within any one hour period of time. The above named developers have all agreed to abide by self imposed security rules.
There are published rules that developers of Internet Bots or Agents are suggested follow. One of the major rules suggested is that any kind of client program be it browser or Bot, identify itself to the server. In the case of Agent type Bots, (our software is not an Agent) there is a rule that strongly recommends that the Bot also give up the email address of its developer. This is a safety feature in the event a Bot was to get out of control and cause a server problems. (A information collecting Bot can get caught in an endless loop and rapid fire the server while standing in place... forever)
My Turn To Send An Email To John Dex
I sent an email to John Dex on 8/31/98 that states my mind and again offered to insure our programs would remain safe for Ebay users. In that email I suggest that Ebay make a listing rule that requires the developer of an auto bidding or auto anything product to register it with Ebay. Such an agreement does not imply that Ebay is a partner or endorses any one type of software. Such an agreement would insure that what every auto bidding, auto selling, auto anything tool that is released on Ebay's servers are safe as it applies to the RFC rules and Internet Agent rules found on the internet. Rules which Ebay themselves follow implicitly.
Ebay can very easily allow developers to register their auto bidding software with them and allow an auto bidding tool to enter their space by having the auto bidding tool pass (send) customized proprietary information to the server to authenticate it.
The Bid Bot episode that Ebay used to justify their new security measures to the Ebay community to the best of my knowledge did not happen. I believe the truth is Ebay has been planning this for a long time. This can be shown by the very careful wording of their new user agreement. Looking at section 7 it is obvious it wasn't created over night but rather was released a month earlier than the Bot episode above. This is the section that the above new user is referring to when this user states sellers and users of Snipe software are in direct violation of.
Section 7
System Integrity. You may not use any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the eBay site or any auction being conducted on our site. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not disclose or share your password to any third parties or use your password for any unauthorized purpose.
No auto bidding tool being offered on Ebay is in violation of this rule and the software designers mentioned in this didactic discourse state they will not make software that is in violation of this agreement. However, if Ebay does not compromise the issue with us, there is no telling what will get developed. Either you want guidelines or you don't.
During the first week of August 1998, a user made several hundred bids in a period of about a week. A close examination of these bids showed that several were made within a minute of each other. Upon discovery of this bid Bot, on August 12 we developers received John Dex's first Email. On August 13, 1998 Ebay posted an announcement on the announcement board that stated that with the help of a user they discovered a Bid Bot, they were tracking it down and that every legal means would be pursued when they discovered the identity of the Bot's operator. Notice the date and time of the announcement. 08/13/98 Time: 08:07:22 PDT
Of course, as is the free and public community way, the culprit's identity was made known publicly on one of the boards. The user that helped catch the evil Bot bragged that he was the user referred to in the announcement. This user is an admitted Anti Sniper.
A conspiracy?
Or, Skippy maybe you are right about them conspiracy theories!
"Yesterday, through the help of an eBay user, we detected and disarmed a
"bid bot" which had placed bids on hundreds of items. A bid bot is a
program which bids on many items or the same item over and over again."
I am especially fond of the detected and disarmed part. Somebody made a whole bunch of bids and we suspended them would have been more factual. How do you disarm a Bot? You cut off it arms? You pull the plug?
The user that was accused of using a Bid Bot was immediately suspended by Ebay without warning and the user's bids were administratively cancelled. This was the disarming of the Bot. In this announcement, Ebay now invents the word Bid Bot and unleashes the term onto the Ebay community.
As you can see above, Ebay via Safe Harbor defines a Bid Bot. No software being offered on Ebay today is a Bid Bot under Ebay's own definition of the term Bid Bot.
"A bid bot is a program which bids on many items or the same item over and over again."
Later, the user was reinstated after it was discovered the Bid Bot was a human thus, false alarm.
For the first time to my knowledge Ebay removed something that was posted on a public board. The part alleging bid Bot was taken down, deleted and on that same day, 8/13 at 16:17:10 PDT a revised announcement was reposted. (Look here if Ebay pulls it down or scrolls it off)
Repeatedly over the years Ebay has told its users that nothing posted on a public bulletin board can be removed by Ebay. Well, it seems Ebay is above their own rules.
It was too late though, because Ebay's announcement as originally worded spread like wild fire throughout the Ebay community. To this day I still receive emails questioning me about the Bid Bot attack and Ebay's sudden decision to implement security procedures to prevent further nasty Bid Bot attacks. Tens of thousands of Ebay users now believe that Ebay came under the attack of a Bid Bot. But did they? They sure pulled their original public announcement down in a hurry. If a Bot Bot was discovered and "disarmed," why the revised announcement?
Even worse was the number of people on the Discuss Ebay's Newest Features board that immediately went into hang the accused mode simply because Ebay said it was so. Ebay also sent auto bidding users into a small panic and to this day, Chuck, Mike and myself are feeling and dealing with the fallout and of course our sales have plummeted. I question why Ebay chose to destroy these sales and not the dozens of ads spewing forth trash and lies listed on the Featured Auctions every day of the week.
In defense of this user, I publicly questioned the board how it was there was any evidence that this user used a "Bid Bot." The user that admitted to helping Ebay catch the evil Bot, admitted there was no evidence and it was just a guess based on the persons bidding pattern and everybody on the board including Ebay's Safe Harbor got carried away. Look at what happened. Somebody accused so and so with no evidence other than bidding on a lot of auctions. The user was accused of breaking Ebay law and the Ebay police broke down their door and invaded the users privacy.
For the boards edification, I told them that back in the dim and misty, Ebay limited all sellers to listing their items to 1/2 hour each hour in order to reduce server load. During that time I and many other sellers just opened up 15 browser windows and submitted our listings one after another within seconds of Ebay's server allowing listings to go through. To list any other way required a seller to devote six hours of their day to list 15 items. I had Snipers emailing me and asking that I not list my auctions so close together because they couldn't Snipe them.My listings were spaced on average about 10 seconds apart. Furthermore, many sellers list in this manner to this day.
Today with system troubles, anybody can do the same thing bidding and get 15 bids in a very quick span of time. What is wrong with browsing several auctions and loading up 15 browser windows perhaps to decide which items you want to bid on, then hit the bid buttons?
Further investigation of the accused also revealed, that there was no Sniper activity, the auctions were very sporadic, had no clear pattern to them and were spaced out over the period of a week. The laughable part of this was a couple of users that emailed me said they heard the user was the Power Ball winner... another rumor being spread around!
Ebay Announces The Death Of Auto Bidding Programs
Though we have been repeatedly reassured that Ebay is not going to do away with the Snipe and that recent and future security changes are not aimed at our auto bidding software, we have to be sure. I have questioned Ebay about misleading us. Why does their original announcement dated 8/13/98 not also state what has been repeatedly stated to the developers of these programs? That is, Ebay is not against these tools being developed. It is common knowledge that auto bidding programs may break when Ebay makes certain kinds of changes. This is because we are not a part of Ebay's organization and are not privy to what Ebay will do next. It is common knowledge among auto bid tool users that when Ebay makes a change, the user gets a quick and fast update.
Ebay's revised official announcement does nothing but discourage users from bidding on auto bidding software and worse when a user complains about a Snipe, Ebay staff has been directed by their supervisors to send the complainer to the Announcement board to read. Revising the announcement clearly shows some thought went into the announcement.
Unfortunately, the change may disable most, if not all "automated bidding programs" (a.k.a. sniping programs). We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause to users or sellers of this type of program.
Why? Could it be that Ebay wants to bring the auto bid tool down permanently? Is Ebay is tired of dealing with the anti Sniper whiners and the sellers that complain Sniping hurts their sales? Are you getting confused yet? Ebay tells the developers of these products, by all means, develop them, we have no problem with them, but they tell the complainers they are bringing the tools down.
Snipers are too busy bidding and winning auctions and haven't noticed that the cry babies won't stop crying.
There are tens of thousands of Snipers bidding at Ebay and only about 8 to 10,000 Ebayers using Snipe tools. (16 to 20,000 users if you count the Piracy factor) Though the Sniper far out numbers the Anti Sniper the Sniper voice is not heard because they have had nothing to complain about and of course, who wants to tell another user how they win all them auctions?
Put your thinking cap on and sharpen your keyboard pen. Do you want Ebay to put an end to your Sniping with a tool that just uses a timer to place your bid? A tool that does not even come close to Ebay's own definition of a Bid Bot? Do you believe that Ebay is telling the truth to those of us that develop the software? How come Ebay does not tell the Ebay community that they do not have a problem with their users using auto bidding tools or the developers programming them?
Because it increases the odds that you will save money for an item.
Why do you want an auto bidding program?
Because you have a life and it is not convenient for you to schedule your life around making a bid on Ebay in order to fulfill your need to bid very late in an auction. You do not want to get up at 4:00 am to bid, you can't bid while you are at work, on an outing, spending time with your family or while you are on vacation.
How come Ebay refuses to consider safe and sane offers?
Don't know. It may be over an endorsement issue.
Does Ebay need to hear your voice?
You bet they do. Ebay does not believe you exist or if you do, they do not believe you have a say in the matter. The Anti Snipe/Pro Snipe debate has been raging on the Discuss Ebay's Newest Features board for weeks. Ebay created this board to get a feel for their newest features and policies. Ebay makes decisions based on what is said on this board. This is your sounding board Snipers!
If you do not want Ebay to end late bidding and Sniping as you know it, then it's time to tell Ebay how you feel about what is happening and offers by auto bidding software to develop "Safe" bidding tools.
Your enemy, the Anti Snipers. They hang out on the Discuss Ebay's Newest Features board. It's time to tell them to quit being cry babies and bid all their money up front like the sellers and Ebay want them to or... join the club.
There are a few Pro Snipers that have been fighting for your rights on the same board linked above and they are growing weary. Furthermore, Ebay has stepped in to get people off the Snipe subject. Consider this:
"I got the feeling that eBay did not really mind what we wanted to talk about as long as it pertained to eBay stuff and not the bull over in the cafe. If we got hung up on sniping for hours and hours.....they might step in and "lead" us down another path."
Email John Dex and tell him how you feel about what Ebay is doing.
With the thousands of sellers that are ripping off bidders, why is Ebay so concerned suddenly with you using a harmless program to submit your bid?
Remind John Dex that the Ebay community decides how and when they bid on an item given the fact that Ebay allows up to seven days for you to make your mind up you will bid when you want and how you want.
Staff always directs users to support@Ebay.com to submit issues of interest to the community that are not customer support issues.
Keith Antognini was head of Customer Support but I do not know if he is still with Ebay. Tell Keith you do not appreciate his frontline customer service representatives dodging the Snipe issue and sending community members to read bad press about Sniping and that you want the board to reflect Ebay's "True" published feelings about these tools being developed.
The only public board that is appropriate to discuss Ebay newest security features is the Discuss Ebay's Newest Features board. I was lurking the night Ebay staff stepped in to get the topic off of Sniping. I was there when one of the developers point blanked John Dex about the issue and he wiggled out thus refused to discuss the issue publicly. Security is a feature and it should be allowed to be discussed.
Ebay's Safe Harbor is responsible for protecting Ebay's community members. With the help of an Anti Sniper, Safe Harbor is the group that falsely accused a user of being a Bid Bot. Be sure that group hears your voice.
You can write a letter. You can call. You can fax them.
eBay, Inc.
Voice: 408-369-7342
2005 Hamilton Ave Suite 350
Fax:
408-396-4839
San Jose, CA 95125
Email Ebay's founder. He says he cares
From Pierre
"I invite you to send your emails directly to me, and periodically I will respond to those I feel are of the greatest interest to the community at large. The original letter and my response will be published on this page.
Please observe the following guidelines:
I assume the PO from San Jose means Pissed Off from San Jose ??
So we are real clear on my issue...
I believe that Ebay should take steps to protect themselves from malicious Internet Robots. I do not agree that they need to kill the harmless auto bidding tools in the process.
I believe that Ebay has focused on this issue wrongly and is dissuading users from purchasing auto bidding software by alleging our programs are not safe for the Ebay community.
I believe Ebay has gone overboard with the security threat and has done so publicly using the Phantom Bid Bot as their justification.
I believe it is wrong for Ebay to attack auto bidding software with falsehoods and not posting publicly that they do not have a problem with the programs being offered but rather instead choose to make users fear the consequences of purchasing them.
Ebay provides absolutely no security nor do they attempt to verify a sellers reputation in behalf of their hundreds of thousands of buyers in order to protect you from fraudulent sellers. Ebay protects fraudulent sellers by requiring bidders with free email addresses to surrender their credit card number to prove they are legitmate bidders.
Along with Chuck and Mike we wish for Ebay to make a public announcement that they do support, condone and endorse the development of Snipe tools and that the sellers and users of this software are in compliance with the new user agreement.
I have no other issues with Ebay and I am very grateful for what they have done for me, my family and how they have changed a lot of peoples lives for the better.
When I introduced the Snipe tool to Ebay, within hours of its release my auction was shut down without warning for a rule violation. The rule violation was that I offered to save bidders shipping costs by offering a download of the product.
I received a nasty cold letter from the staff member that shut down the auction. The rule I was accused of violating is not written anywhere. The shut down email told me that Ebay reserves the right to stop any auction for any reason without warning. So they did.
I responded to this staff member that I did not appreciate the Gestapo manner in which I was treated, nor the cold and impersonal notice that came afterward. I argued that since a seller has the right to discontinue their auction or add a note to the auction over any issue that arises during the course of the auction that a Seller should be notified of the alleged violation and the seller should be given the opportunity to close the auction or add the appropriate addendum to the auction. As it was, it took me three months and several emails to get the listing credit applied to my account.
My point is folks, I am fully expecting Ebay to retaliate against me now and find a reason to suspend me. If they do, all bets are off with my programs promises and you can contact me personally for any revised version I develop. If you don't think this issue is a hot one then explain this?
"Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:01:44 -0700
To: deccles@pacbell.net
From:
Subject: Question: Ebay will end sniping this week
I already own TWO different sniping programs, each offered something different that I
liked, As you know EBAY will AGAIN change security measures this week unlike the change 2
weeks again this one will REALLY shut done sniping programs with random security codes or
something like that.
What's your sniping programs future? I will of course BUY which every sniping program can get around this new change this week. With any change I'm sure there will be someone that finds away around it and offer sniping programs again in the future."
Is this what Ebay wants to see happen? Is Ebay is going to turn this software into solid gold? It also means that you might have to look through them Ebay sunglasses to find me and a few other sellers I know :)
A phone call asking for Ebay's official position statement on the matter was made on Friday. John Dex replies with a subtle reminder that Ebay can prohibit the sale of automated bid tools, which of course can be construed as a subtle threat.
"Does eBay want to eliminate the automated bidding tool?" His verbal response: "No" but then he said he would check with eBay management and eMail a formal response
In response to Ebay's Position Statement.
Then it's understood. Auto Bidding software can be developed however if Ebay decides one day that they do not want them sold on Ebay, there will be an announcement posted giving 30 days notice.
9/1/98
John Dex replied to my email. (In all fariness to John I cut a couple of paragraphs out)
My Reply (One <snip> in response to what I <snip> from John.)
In response to John's latest email
He makes it sound like we can all breath a little easier.
See the counter? I fully expect at least one email and one board post for every hit shown. More will be posted as necessary.
Is last second bidding or "Sniping" all you need to know about winning more Ebay auctions?
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